Curse

afya · Mar 09, 2010, 11:22 PM // 23:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mireles

Thanks JR for adding the poll. I must say very surprising results. almost a 50/50 yes and no.

Actually, if u take a closer look. It's 6+35 vs 35+20, which is 25-75.

Mireles · Mar 09, 2010, 11:31 PM // 23:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phaern Majes

The majority of those yes's and no's are just two sides of the same coin.

Yes, The Feb 25th Update met most of its objectives.
No, The Feb 25th Update didn't meet enough of its objectives

Really just a glass is half-full/half-empty distinction. Both agree that some objectives were met and that some weren't.

Yes, what i had originally put is "The Feb 25th update didn't do enough to meet its objectives". I added this because alot of people I spoke with liked the update, but did not feel it was sufficient solution to SF. Whether or not that feeling made them feel positive about what was done or negative is at their discretion.

The key difference still exists.... Were the objectives important to you met? is how many people vote... Yes or no?

Mireles · Mar 09, 2010, 11:31 PM // 23:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by afya

Actually, if u take a closer look. It's 6+35 vs 35+20, which is 25-75.

yes, i had made this statement hours ago

Phineas · Mar 10, 2010, 01:26 AM // 01:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpkin pie

what was the objective beside wanting to nerf some skills? Because, seriously, no one can cast a vote if the objective weren't even clear in the first place.

frankly I don't seen any changes to the game what so ever

Not even in the number of players in outposts?

Quote:

Originally Posted by GODh

I think the only goal achieved is driving most pve-ers away and turning GW into a pvp-only game... i wouldnt be surpised if the rest of the pve community will follow too, because for hardcore pve-ers there isnt much left to do (only some grinding... the hard way).

/Agree with this. New players may not hang around long when they see the game this empty. The game used to be "The game does not begin until you are level 20", but now it seems that that is actually when it ends. Beyond that (in PvE) the grind has now just been extended.

Mesmer in Need · Mar 10, 2010, 02:39 AM // 02:39

People are still doing DoA, FoW, and UW with SF. That was the main thing that the update was supposed to fix, but I guess it didn't. Therefore, it didn't accomplish all of what is should have done.
Also, earth shaker is still the only real reliable hammer build to use for pve.

Chthon · Mar 10, 2010, 03:57 AM // 03:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

They tried majorly toning down Shadow Form - failed.
They tried nerfing 600/smite - As far as I know, it worked. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
They tried nerfing OF - It's now being used in speed clears. If anything, they buffed it.
They tried making useless skills, well, useful - It somewhat worked. Some skills still suck.

Overall, it wasn't nearly enough.

Pretty much this.

At least for speed clears, here's the fix:
1. Nerf SF all the way into the ground. Nerf it to dust. Kill it already.
2. Revert OF and then add "...and you are unaffected by any effects that increase movement speed."

Martin Alvito · Mar 10, 2010, 05:27 AM // 05:27

Much easier solution to OF (from an implementation standpoint):

- Revert
- 90% movement speed reduction
- Strip the run buff from Celerity

At that point you can't go over +8% movement speed without using skills. (+33% RR, +25% BR, +15% GR, +25% CC) That makes it very challenging to shake HM aggro. You get a legit non-Warrior tank that can still solo elite mission areas, but it takes some time, skill, and a bunch of monetary investment to get past content. That extra time investment required makes balanced alternatives more viable.

Mireles · Mar 10, 2010, 06:25 AM // 06:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

Much easier solution to OF (from an implementation standpoint):

- Revert
- 90% movement speed reduction
- Strip the run buff from Celerity

At that point you can't go over +8% movement speed without using skills. (+33% RR, +25% BR, +15% GR, +25% CC) That makes it very challenging to shake HM aggro. You get a legit non-Warrior tank that can still solo elite mission areas, but it takes some time, skill, and a bunch of monetary investment to get past content. That extra time investment required makes balanced alternatives more viable.

Thank you, i tried to make a similar point in another thread to make SF recharge to where you needed a essence to maintain fully. It makes free balanced builds more viable because efficiency is now a monetary trade off. If such a thing is ever made a requirement the cost of these items will increase.

We can keep the speed clears and the farming... people will be even more choosy now that their money is involved... and we will have a not so trivial balance build user population.

shoyon456 · Mar 10, 2010, 07:31 AM // 07:31

Well, in a sense the update did meet its' objectives. HOWEVER, those were the objectives set by Anet themselves. Also, we did not actually get the "objectives" of the update until a week before.

It's entirely likely they decided some general ideas of what to do, made their updates, then contrived their "objectives" and reasons after the fact, not before.

Test Me · Mar 10, 2010, 08:29 AM // 08:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mireles

Thank you, i tried to make a similar point in another thread to make SF recharge to where you needed a essence to maintain fully. It makes free balanced builds more viable because efficiency is now a monetary trade off. If such a thing is ever made a requirement the cost of these items will increase.

We can keep the speed clears and the farming... people will be even more choosy now that their money is involved... and we will have a not so trivial balance build user population.

You want GW to require potions (clicking some inventory icon every X seconds)... ????? When the fact that only the skill bar and not the potions (consumables, etc) is all that matters made this game successful?

Then why not just go ahead and add health potions, if you have enough and your inventory clicking is good enough you should be able to "tank" anything with not a skill on your bar.

And second... no matter what they do there will never again be any "user population" of balance builds. When are you going to get that players still in GW *do not play because killing the same PvE mobs they have been killing for 3 years or more is so fun*.

Will people on guru ever get that? People that play speed clears don't play for adding a new statue to HoM cause they finished the area, nor do they play because doing UW/DoA/etc over and over again is soooo fun and entertaining - that they just can't help themselves but feel this urge to jump from one successful pug to another!? (sarcastic).

1) SC players play because they want faction, gems, ecto... If they can't get faction, gems, ecto, etc anymore they won't start pugging/balance teams just for the fun of clearing the area (that's the silliest thing most people against SC say)... they will just quit the game and your chances to pug/balance team would stay completely-totally-100% unchanged.

2) People that do play balanced teams/pugs play to clear one area once (mostly to put some statue in HoM) and they have a terrible/horrible/repulsing/frustrating/totally against what a game should be (=fun) experience that after they get lucky and succeed to clear the area *they will never ever ever want to come back and play it again* but they will thank god they've finally cleared it and would never want to hear about it again, because *that's how fun the elite content* in GW is.

Wake up already. No amount of nerfing will ever ever bring any pugs/balanced teams back. Pugs didn't die because of overpowered skills, pugs died because the PvE content of this game is so freaking boring and overplayed and unchanged for 3 years now.

Riot Narita · Mar 10, 2010, 09:09 AM // 09:09

Some people are confusing what A-Net's objectives were, with what their own objectives are.

The poll question is "How well did the Feb 25th update meet its objectives?".
Not "Did it do what you personally want?".

Morphy · Mar 10, 2010, 12:45 PM // 12:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot Narita

Some people are confusing what A-Net's objectives were, with what their own objectives are.

The poll question is "How well did the Feb 25th update meet its objectives?".
Not "Did it do what you personally want?".

^ Which is exactly why this is a moot discussion. You can't have an opinion on this.

pumpkin pie · Mar 10, 2010, 03:46 PM // 15:46

Someone explain to me like I am a 5 years old please.

How is making players spend more time playing the game = game balancing?

IE: Same map, same enemies, same scenario, things that we do repeatedly, at some point, we are bound to do it in a faster time. so how old is this game? 5 years old. How is it bad, that players are able to clear an elite area in, say 30 minutes?

DRGN · Mar 10, 2010, 04:10 PM // 16:10

Well, as far as their objectives go:

Quote:

With these changes, we've tried to make a powerful, versatile and interesting skill that can be used well in a few situations but does not overshadow other character types in general usage.

I dunno, you be the judge if that objective was met. Isn't that opinion based?

S_Serpent · Mar 10, 2010, 04:25 PM // 16:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by GODh

I think the only goal achieved is driving most pve-ers away and turning GW into a pvp-only game... i wouldnt be surpised if the rest of the pve community will follow too, because for hardcore pve-ers there isnt much left to do (only some grinding... the hard way).

Quoted for truth

N1ghtstalker · Mar 10, 2010, 04:30 PM // 16:30

the update failed

Mireles · Mar 10, 2010, 08:02 PM // 20:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Test Me

You want GW to require potions (clicking some inventory icon every X seconds)... ????? When the fact that only the skill bar and not the potions (consumables, etc) is all that matters made this game successful?

Then why not just go ahead and add health potions, if you have enough and your inventory clicking is good enough you should be able to "tank" anything with not a skill on your bar.

And second... no matter what they do there will never again be any "user population" of balance builds. When are you going to get that players still in GW *do not play because killing the same PvE mobs they have been killing for 3 years or more is so fun*.

Will people on guru ever get that? People that play speed clears don't play for adding a new statue to HoM cause they finished the area, nor do they play because doing UW/DoA/etc over and over again is soooo fun and entertaining - that they just can't help themselves but feel this urge to jump from one successful pug to another!? (sarcastic).

1) SC players play because they want faction, gems, ecto... If they can't get faction, gems, ecto, etc anymore they won't start pugging/balance teams just for the fun of clearing the area (that's the silliest thing most people against SC say)... they will just quit the game and your chances to pug/balance team would stay completely-totally-100% unchanged.

2) People that do play balanced teams/pugs play to clear one area once (mostly to put some statue in HoM) and they have a terrible/horrible/repulsing/frustrating/totally against what a game should be (=fun) experience that after they get lucky and succeed to clear the area *they will never ever ever want to come back and play it again* but they will thank god they've finally cleared it and would never want to hear about it again, because *that's how fun the elite content* in GW is.

Wake up already. No amount of nerfing will ever ever bring any pugs/balanced teams back. Pugs didn't die because of overpowered skills, pugs died because the PvE content of this game is so freaking boring and overplayed and unchanged for 3 years now.

I'm sorry i wasn't aware that there was a player guru that knows what all players do and want. Arguments are made with facts and hypothesis... not broad assumptions that generalize an entire population... and i didn't hear an alternative solution, other than we should just forget about it.

afya · Mar 10, 2010, 08:07 PM // 20:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpkin pie

Someone explain to me like I am a 5 years old please.

How is making players spend more time playing the game = game balancing?

IE: Same map, same enemies, same scenario, things that we do repeatedly, at some point, we are bound to do it in a faster time. so how old is this game? 5 years old. How is it bad, that players are able to clear an elite area in, say 30 minutes?

Elite area u mentioned. How is an area elite anymore when it became shorter than some regular mission+B?

Mireles · Mar 10, 2010, 08:18 PM // 20:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpkin pie

Someone explain to me like I am a 5 years old please.

How is making players spend more time playing the game = game balancing?

IE: Same map, same enemies, same scenario, things that we do repeatedly, at some point, we are bound to do it in a faster time. so how old is this game? 5 years old. How is it bad, that players are able to clear an elite area in, say 30 minutes?

It all comes down to your opinion i suppose... Guild Wars 2 hasn't come out so i think guild wars 1 needs to be maintained. Currently the way things are now.... if your a noob trying to get into a UWSC, not gunna happen even if you had the build... your still noob which if anyone finds out its /kick. Its not so much the ability to clear in 30 minutes, its the effect on game play it has. This is why id perfer URSAN over SF, at least everyone got to participate then.

Also i see alot of new players that are LFG for missions and lose thier groups when SF runner comes by and offers to run the mission for 1k. This doesn't make a good game in my opinion.

The Drunkard · Mar 10, 2010, 08:58 PM // 20:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

They tried majorly toning down Shadow Form - failed.
They tried nerfing 600/smite - As far as I know, it worked. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
They tried nerfing OF - It's now being used in speed clears. If anything, they buffed it.
They tried making useless skills, well, useful - It somewhat worked. Some skills still suck.

This is similar to what I feel. I fail to see why Anet doesn't just remove the recharge on essence, which would tone down a large amount of SCs, and instead is hell-bent on balancing skills around broken concepts for a pve game.

It bothers me even further, that the test crewe thought that seeping wound would make a great addition to pvp, even when a large portion of pvp players were bitching about IoP being too strong...go figure.

It's dumb mistakes like these that polarize the community; a decent update was botched because Anet was too stubborn to scrap a broken mechanic and too ignorant to think of balancing skills they introduce into the game.